McCains's choice of VP was a brilliant move

1) It sucks all the talk away from Obama's big night and makes his speech a one day news story because this will now dominate the news cycle for over a week.

2) It gives McCain the perfect foil to talk about the experience thing. Who cares if the VP is relatively inexperienced he/she is not the president but what if the president himself is the inexperienced one? Then sir you have a problem. Every attack on her for inexperience just forces the press to compare her real executive experience with Obama's part time job in the Illinois legislature. And as for his US senate experience -well Obama said it himself "if I were to decide to run for president I would have to start now before I even serve one day in the Senate". Please, McCain is begging you -attack her for inexperience.

3) It makes McCain/Palin the ticket of change as much or more so than Obama. McCain loves that moniker and is comfortable with it. Her youth makes him the candidate of the future and definitely livens up the ticket. It also gives them real street cred that this is not just the same old Washington politics, not the same old Republican party. This is aimed at all those independents that are not yet comfortable with Obama and even those that might have thought they were may yet change their minds. For all the mud you are going to throw at her and for all you try to belittle her she actually confronted corruption in her own party and won. Show me those kind of credentials for anything Obama has ever done.

4) It will keep at the forefront all those wounded feelings that some women had when Hillary was attacked so viciously by the media and by her own party. Especially if the Obama campaign and the pundits fall into the trap of creating a double standard -inexperienced Obama is ok but inexperienced Palin is not? Or Tim Kaine was ok but Palin is not.

My take -this is risky but it is the boldest and smartest risky move I have seen in a long time. Is Palin herself up to it -we have no idea. But if she is then when you look back this will be the defining moment of the campaign.

Also the crap that is going around that this is just a cheap trick by McCain to win Hillary voters will backfire because every time you say something nasty about Palin, the wounds will reopen about Hillary not being our nominee and remind women that she was not even considered for VP. That will rankle and it will rankle every day until November 4th. Speaking as a Hillary supporter, I am impressed. Obama is in trouble.



Display:


Re: McCains's choice of VP was a brilliant move (2.00 / 1)

Also the crap that is going around that this is just a cheap trick by McCain to win Hillary voters will backfire because every time you say something nasty about Palin, the wounds will reopen about Hillary not being our nominee and remind women that she was not even considered for VP. That will rankle and it will rankle every day until November 4th. Speaking as a Hillary supporter, I am impressed. Obama is in trouble.

nope sorry.  I am rankled that McCain would think that putting a woman with her background would get Hillary voters.

It isn't the vagina.  It is the person.  Palin is not even CLOSE to Hillary and what she has done.  She is trying to freeload on what Hillary accomplished this past primary - I wanted to throw something at my TV when I heard Palin rip the 18 million cracks line from Hillary

complete pandering.  and an insult to the intelligence of American women.


by colebiancardi on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 10:44:39 PM EST

seriously (2.00 / 3)

is the original poster slow?

she said she couldn't support Hillary because she was whining. she is 100% pro-life. she supports teaching creationism.

this woman is the opposite of Hillary. It's like evil Hillary.

And how can you say it equals the change of Obama. As McCain is saying...he's the president and he voted with bush 90% of the time. She doesn't lead policy, and even if she did, she's a typical conservative involved in a very real ethics scandal.
Obama is the one who will be president, with Biden there to step in if needed. Obama will push for change, McCain, with Palin there to -- wait, she can't step in she's never done anything -- will push more of the same.


by PHDinNYC4Kerry on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:08:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Evil Hillary" (2.00 / 1)

She reminds me more of a female version of Mike Huckabee: ostensibly moderate or non-threatening concealing a real snake in the grass political ideology.


by TheUnknown285 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:13:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Evil Hillary" (none / 0)

She's like a female Huckabee...  except she utterly lacks his folksy appeal and human decency.


I am not a crook!
by username on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 10:43:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCains's choice of VP was a brilliant move (none / 0)

sheesh, she has no experience and is a far-right winger..she's gonna go nowhere.


by mecarr on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 10:44:46 PM EST

Re: McCains's choice of VP was a brilliant move (2.00 / 2)

I thought it was brilliant at first, but after a few hours of watching the press coverage I'm not so sure. I've watched plenty of Republicans being asked point blank, is Sarah Palin ready to be president, and quite a few of them trying to wiggle out of it because they can't answer with a straight face.

We'll see what happens. Certainly the convention will give them a chance to define Palin and that is a plus for them, but so far it is indeed high risk/ high reward - with the risk being very evident and the reward, not so much yet.


by animated on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 10:48:52 PM EST

No, he's screwed himself. Big time. n/t (2.00 / 4)


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 10:56:05 PM EST

Re: McCains's choice of VP was a brilliant move (2.00 / 4)

The problem with Palin is that no one knows her... the only thing I knew was the wolf slaughter thing... the more I have learned, the less I like her... that is the danger.

Wait until the press vets her..


McCain/Palin... even scarier than Bush/Cheney... and that's saying something!
by JenKinFLA on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 10:58:21 PM EST

Re: McCains's choice of VP was a brilliant move (none / 0)

the press actually vet someone - ha ha ha ha

That was a joke right


by Bornagaindem on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:24:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Concern noted, balled up (2.00 / 3)

thrown in the trash.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:04:55 PM EST

Re: McCains's choice of VP was a brilliant move (2.00 / 3)

Sarah Palin is a person who opposes the right to abortions even in the case of rape.

Given this, it seems to me that she'll fail to impress many Hillary Clinton supporters.


by Aris Katsaris2 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:07:30 PM EST

Re: McCains's choice of VP was a brilliant move (2.00 / 3)

You and I, clearly, have very different definitions of "change" if you think this bestows that mantle on the McCain campaign.


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:07:38 PM EST

Re: McCains's choice of VP was a brilliant move (2.00 / 3)

It was a desperate move, and to me it suggests they're pretty much conceding the election, and hoping to salvage some downticket races in deep red states, where Pavin will help. That doesn't mean Obama has a cakewalk -- he still has to turn out the vote, keep enthusiasm high, and avoid any major gaffes. But with this VP pick, the GOP is practically handing him the keys to the White House.

Pavin's brand of conservatism may win some votes in southern Ohio and western PA, but won't carry those states. She's not going to swing any blue states. The people of Colorado are moving away from the GOP brand and she's not going to change that. The entire evangelical base isn't as big or as dependable as it was in 2004.

The fact that she's almost laughably unqualified to take over the presidency is going to scare away Independents who will be seriously alarmed at the prospect of her being a heartbeat away.

Nope, this is about saving a few Congressional seats by marketing a rabid right-winger in deeply conservative areas. Anything else the GOP gets is gravy, but it's not going to be the White House. In that respect, yes, it's a brilliant move.


"This victory alone is not the change we seek -- it is only the chance for us to make that change." -- Nov. 4, 2008
by BobzCat on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:08:19 PM EST

Re: McCains's choice of VP was a brilliant move (none / 0)

you don't get the born-agains.  i don't know how or why he thought up her, but it does make him the focus of attention and all eyes will be on her. the girls fascinate the press, and it'll be big new throughout Europe.  It's good for girls, even if we are being used, they need us, that's unusual.  Those pug women who would have voted for Hillary over the competence thing will be glad to vote for one of their own.  And what she does to the abortion debate is amazing, I'm one of those who thinks abortion at any stage is a choice, but she has a genetically handicapped child, and this child, to Christians of a certain ilk is a child of god, that we heathens would abort because we are selfish and only want perfect children.  

John must not be underestimated.  Barack must prepare to debate him, he's cagey, he has a few more cards up his sleeve.  

Why not come up with debate questions for Barack, so he can practice.  Usually that stuff must be purchased, some of you can throw practice questions at him for free.  


what a relief
by anna shane on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:53:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCains's choice of VP was a brilliant move (2.00 / 1)

Sorry, I find your opinions naive and barely coherent. I'd rather not respond to them except to say that, once deciphered, they reveal an agenda that is more supportive of republican candidates and conservative ideology than to Democrats and progressive ideals.

That's just my opinion, of course.


"This victory alone is not the change we seek -- it is only the chance for us to make that change." -- Nov. 4, 2008
by BobzCat on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:07:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Nothing incoherent about this: (2.00 / 1)

we don't have to try and beat him (4.00 / 2)
he'll beat himself, best if we all have clean hands.  They'll try to blame us, and then they'll learn nothing.

by: anna shane @ Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 21:52:31 PM CDT
[ Parent ]

Good job leaving no fingerprints, Anna Shane.  No one will ever know.


If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way.
by Jess81 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:18:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nothing incoherent about this: (none / 0)

you are a mixed up person, indeed. I don't need clean fingerprints, I'm just a nobody, trying to convince Barack to get serious about winning, and those who are mad at him to not go so far as to vote for the pug.  Bad me?  


what a relief
by anna shane on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:36:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nothing incoherent about this: (2.00 / 1)

So then you're pretending to be against him on AC, but you're really for him?  Shouldn't you just state your beliefs?  Or are you pretending to be for him here, and stating your true intentions over there?  I don't understand.  

It must, indeed, be because I'm so mixed up.


If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way.
by Jess81 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:57:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nothing incoherent about this: (none / 0)

shouldn't you be thinking about something more interesting than the motives of me. I'm clear enough, I always say I'll vote for him and I don't say I think he's perfect, I think he's a jerk, and I think he has the duty to do his best to win, and if he's not too proud to make some changes, he can win.  It's up to him, not me. I don't blog that we should defeat him. I'd like to see him win, I just think he grabbed the nom but like Gore and Kerry he's too high on himself to ask for votes and listen to those who think he needs to make some changes.  If he thinks he's perfect and can keep running the way he's been running, then I think he'll lose.  that won't help me at all.  And by blogging hate speech at me you're not helping him either. You and I are not the only one's who read here. I'm a nobody, I'm not running for office, getting us out of Iraq isn't up to me.  It's up to Barack to win and get us out, and right now only Barack.  


what a relief
by anna shane on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 01:12:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nothing incoherent about this: (2.00 / 1)

I think about a lot of things, and if I see someone kicking sand in someone's eyes, I let them know about it.  I really wasn't trying to engage you at all, let alone get bogged down.

Your definition of hate speech is a very peculiar one.


If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way.
by Jess81 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 05:41:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Does that mean we can't (2.00 / 1)

attack her on corruption and abuse of power? Damn. Then maybe I shouldn't post this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQx42Tsz5 NQ


Gobama!
by USArmyParatrooper on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:14:01 PM EST

Re: McCains's choice of VP was a brilliant move (none / 0)

I think everyone might admit it was audacious, and smart.  It gets those evangelicals excited, those who think John won't last his term (he will, and he'll run for a second time if he wins).  

give him that, and then think of a way to defeat him?  


what a relief
by anna shane on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:47:50 PM EST

Re: McCains's choice of VP was a brilliant move (none / 0)

I was the first here to be gracious, and my diary congratulating her made the top of the Rec list, if only briefly.  I actually like her personally, and I've known of her for some time.

That said, this is a Harriet Miers moment.  It seems that the Republicans have a problem picking qualified women when they pick women for these sorts of jobs.  Sandra Day O'Connor may be the last time a Republican nominated a crackerjack female for the job, whatever it is.

There are sooooo many qualified women, even in the Republican party.  How do you think Susan Collins feels right now?  Imagine you're Olympia Snowe.  What about Kay Bailey Hutchison?  Elizabeth Dole?  Condi Rice?

Seriously, this is one of the biggest insults to women I've ever seen.  I haven't spoken to a single woman in real life who isn't either insulted or non-plussed.

This was a gamble, and not a smart one.  


by Reaper0Bot0 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:57:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCains's choice of VP was a brilliant move (2.00 / 1)

Those women aren't firebreathers on abortion.

And, let's face it. Palin is young and pretty, and the press will fawn all over her.

It IS a Hail Mary, and it DID change the conversation this morning.

We ALL would have been talking about Barack's amazing speech.

Instead it was all Palin all the time.

But, McCain HAD to do this? he was looking at the pundits bury him deep and throwing the dirt on his grave?

Now, they are too busy talking bout Palin.


On Nov 4th, we elected "the smart guy" and the world celebrated!
by WashStateBlue on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:12:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCains's choice of VP was a brilliant move (none / 0)

But that only lasts for a day. The novelty will be gone tomorrow, and the stories from major newspapers on Troopergate will force people to start questioning this dubious pick.


by elrod on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:42:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCains's choice of VP was a brilliant move (none / 0)

And it was a decision McCain made made in the heat of the moment last night, likely during Obama's speech he wanted Lieberman. Brilliant move.. or desperate?


by notedgeways on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:51:35 PM EST

Re: McCains's choice of VP was a brilliant move (none / 0)

I don't care what ABC says no one would be stupid enough to pick wimpy old Lieberman - he is a loser. What would he bring McCain? Nothing.


by Bornagaindem on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:30:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCains's choice of VP was a brilliant move (none / 0)

Apparently John McCain disagrees with you. He really did want Joe Lieberman until he learned that the GOP base would revolt.


by elrod on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:43:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCains's choice of VP was a brilliant move (none / 0)

An experienced, completely sympatico politician who would have demolished Barack Obama's "more of the same" argument?  The first bipartisan ticket in 150 years... which would have demolished Barack Obama's "more of the same" argument?

Of course, Joe Lieberman is also a schmuck, but that's just my opinion and I'm not voting for him anyway.


If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way.
by Jess81 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 01:01:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCains's choice of VP was a brilliant move (none / 0)

I think Lieberman would have been the unity candidate. The candidate both Rs and Ds can hate equally.

The thing is, if that is who McCain, which is running for President, wanted, he should have chosen him. It sounds as if he is a bespoke man, and is just doing what other people want him to do.

Conversaly you have Obama, who pisses some people off because he (gasp) has the temerity to lay down the basic rules of engagement during the convention, allows some room for needed recognition in certain areas, but making it know he calls the shots, for good or ill.

McCain is no decider


by notedgeways on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 02:23:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

hey boring (none / 0)

come over to AC and post?  We're not for McCain, and I'd personally welcome you.  I've missed you, how've you been?  


what a relief
by anna shane on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:55:15 PM EST

Re: hey boring (2.00 / 1)

More than half of you are for McCain.  Would you like me to bust out the quotes?


by Reaper0Bot0 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:58:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: hey boring (2.00 / 1)

I got some!

she'd run and win  (4.00 / 3)

[in 2012]even if he does win[in 2008], cause he surely won't be as effective as the girl wonk, who''s in this for us, and not for her ownly fat ego, like some people I've heard about.    
by: anna shane @ Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 21:07:33 PM CDT
[ Parent ]

we don't have to try and beat him (4.00 / 2)

he'll beat himself, best if we all have clean hands.  They'll try to blame us, and then they'll learn nothing.

by: anna shane @ Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 21:52:31 PM CDT
[ Parent ]

Note the date.  Jesus Christ, do you think that you guys are writing in code?  We can read.


If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way.
by Jess81 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:23:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: hey boring (none / 0)

I'm voting for him, and it is not a McCain site. some people there may think voting for McCain is the way to get through to our dense party, but it's not the philosophy of the site.  It's not Al's idea. we want Barack to figure out how to win us, but in any event we won't be voting for John.  If he loses, it won't be with my help. If you caught me trying to convince some that they should not work against him, but for issues, how is that supposed to make me look bad?  


what a relief
by anna shane on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:34:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: hey boring (none / 0)

Two problems here, Anna.

First, tell people what you actually want.
Second, stop moving the goalposts.

Political parties are massively diverse groups.  Nobody gets everything they want.  The various factions sacrifice some of their goals in order to secure others.  What do you actually want?  Once you folks can articulate that well and reasonably explain how it should be done, well, you have a better shot at a seat at the table.

All the PUMA types have accomplished at this point is to scare off wavering Superdelegates and marginalize Hillary Clinton and her supporters.  The behavior people see at Alegre's Corner and similar sites has damaged Hillary Clinton because some of her most visible supporters refused to accept what everybody else did.

You don't have to accept that which you find evil.  You are absolutely free to rage against the dying of the light.  Just don't expect everybody else to be thrilled about it, especially when your demands are incoherent and frankly impossible to meet.

Be well.  Tell Radiowalla I respect her for taking a principled stand in the face of people far less rational.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:45:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: hey boring (none / 0)

excuse me, the problem is me, I need to articulate?  The point is that he needs to articulate, if he wants to win.  I clearly want him to win more than you do, you want him to stay the same, never change, and lose?  So you can blame me?  I think we need a dem president more than you do?


what a relief
by anna shane on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:59:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: hey boring (2.00 / 1)

Um, Anna, with all due respect, that was all you.  You projected whatever the hell that was you just wrote.

I emphatically do not want Barack Obama to remain firm when he should flex.  I never said that, thought it, or implied it.

The problem is not Anna Shane.  The problem, small as it is, is with the "larger" group of aggrieved voters who want Barack Obama to do something to satisfy them.

Near as I can tell, the only thing he can do at this point to satisfy them is to lose.  If there's something else, you folks should express what it is.  Barack Obama isn't magical.  He isn't a telepath.  Tell the world what you folks want him to do.

Stop passive-aggressively attacking him for not divining it through some sort of augury.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 01:20:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

hey Anna, (2.00 / 1)

I visit AC a lot to guage the opinions of the anti-Obama crowd after major events (HRCs speech, Obama's speech, Palin).

After HRCs speech, I visited AC (among other puma blogs) and read some things I was surprised to see.

Following that, I wrote this diary:

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/8/27/1117 0/7051#readmore

Although we completely disagree, you have been honest and well spoken, is there any possible way you would be willing to cross-post that diary at AC or at least fight against the actions I was writing about.  It has, at times, gotten very ugly and detracts from your over-arching message.  You will not change minds if those types of comments are what people see when they first visit AC or any other puma blog.

Also, please ignore 99% of that diaries comments and (most likely) any comments in reply to this comment.  Many people missed the point and did the usual.


McCain = bad Obama = good
by CAchemist on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:44:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: hey Anna, (none / 0)

I can't cross post there, but if you're registered you can post it.  It's not a site for convincing people we're wrong and Hillary is racist and Barack is great, most of us have read that stuff to nausea, and we've been bashed for not agreeing and having a different point of view about how to win the GE.  I think Barack would get better advice about how to adjust his campaign at AC than at any of the love Barack places, but that's just my opinion, he never listens to me.  It's not bright to go after Palin, she's just the VP nom and it will only make you look small. Congratulate her and ignore her.  Tell Barack that next time he gets the chance he should ask for our votes.  Just ask. It might not get a good reaction immediately, but no one expects him to ask, we expect him to be too proud to ask.  He should prove us wrong.


what a relief
by anna shane on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 01:06:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: hey Anna, (none / 0)

I am not registered there and imagine that I would not be well accepted and/or banished nearly immediately.

I have no interest in telling you are wrong (about policy), calling Hillary racist or telling anyone that Barack is great.  I do not know how you could infer any of that via my diary.

The singular point was that AC and other puma blogs are using the same vile language against Michelle that many republicans (the ones we all hate) have been using against Hillary since 1991. The language exists to denigrate women that are smart, powerful, beautiful, etc.

If you truly believe in the ideals that AC is supposed to represent, you would find this type of language repugnant when used against any woman.  Did you stand up against this language in the primary because it was used against a single woman (Hillary) or because it is denigrating to all women?


McCain = bad Obama = good
by CAchemist on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 01:17:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: hey Anna, (2.00 / 1)

sorry, we're already saying that kind of stuff, we don't want to be open to fair charges of hypocrisy.  May have slipped through in a few comments, but it's not site policy to diss a candidate's wife. For goodness sake that's what started Hillary's 'negatives' from the get go (that Barack cited as a reason to not support her)..  I was struck by that hypocrisy, and what he says is more important to the 'message' than what his supporters say, but Michelle is a strong woman, and there is no reason so say mean things about her personality. It's okay to disagree with her opinions or how she words things.  That's potentially helpful.   the only candidate wife I thought was truly awful was Teresa Heinz Kerry, what a vapid narcissistic.  She did not help him in her convention speech and I resented Kerry for keeping HIllary from a speaking gig at that convention.  Michelle did a fine job, she's not been a politician, this is new stuff for her and she did fine.  

You can register, you won't be kicked off if you're there to be part of the community and contribute, and not there just to lecture or to speak for Barack, we want him to speak for himself.  One thing you could do is rec comments you agree with.  We're a policy place, and it happens that we started supporting Hillary because we already agreed with most of her policy positions and we liked the way she said it, and we grew to like her a lot.  

It's al's job to lecture when posters go too far, but many of us speak up for our democratic values and no one on that site thinks voting for John McCain is a good idea.  


what a relief
by anna shane on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 01:05:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

hey Califoirnia Chemist (2.00 / 1)

this one's for you:

http://alegrescorner.soapblox.net/showCo mment.do?commentId=13842


what a relief
by anna shane on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 01:26:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: hey Califoirnia Chemist (none / 0)

Thank you very much.  I really appreciate you taking the time to stick up for her.

All the best.


McCain = bad Obama = good
by CAchemist on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 05:13:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: hey Califoirnia Chemist (none / 0)

not just me, all this sexist crap hurled at Palin, when there are plenty of good reasons to find her unacceptable has brought out more, Michelle is included, she's a girl too. None of us deserves to be victims of sexist crap.  Someone said that the RNC would call out the sexist crap, an opportunity the DNC let slip away.  Of course it's easier for McCain, he's got his nom and he picked her, but oh had Barack done the same, how much more would he be respected.  So many missed opportunities to lead.


what a relief
by anna shane on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 06:16:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Your diary has nothing to do (none / 0)

with the far right wing views of this VP candidate or her runningmate.  How a true Hillary supporter, who believes in the causes of her life, could be "excited" by this pick is beyond me, but it must mean you have no regard for the progressive causes that Hillary cares about.


by ttjackson1 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 11:55:37 PM EST

Re: Your diary has nothing to do (2.00 / 1)

I never said that I was excited I said I was impressed. Not all women vote on only one issue ie abortion nor is it a deal breaker all the time. We all heard that Obama let Casey speak atthe convention but his father was not allowed. And besides Obama keeps telling me that talking to and finding common ground with the repugs is what we are supposed to do now that he the leader of our party. Didn't he go to saddleback and subject himself to the fundies? But of course that is not pandering.


by Bornagaindem on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:36:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Your diary has nothing to do (2.00 / 1)

And as I recall, you all attacked him ferociously for it.

At the time I thought it was (somewhat feigned) outrage that Barack Obama was courting evangelical voters, who are the enemy.  Now I realize I had it backwards - you were hoping he'd put Rick Warren on his ticket.


If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way.
by Jess81 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 01:07:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Your diary has nothing to do (none / 0)

sorry wasn't me I haven't posted at mydd or even read it for quite awhile -too many of the O-borg

but now that you mention it I can't wait for the ads in October where they show the video of Obama saying "it is above my pay grade to make that decision including all the ums and ahs and have McCains voice over saying how can we trust this guy to make the tough decisions if they are above his pay grade -probably the stupidest statement ever.


by Bornagaindem on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 04:09:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Your diary has nothing to do (2.00 / 1)

Oh, I bet you can't.  It might work too - you guys gave us Dubya twice, and you may fool enough people this time.

But I'm hoping America will turn down another fundamentalist - even if she is only the number two.


If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way.
by Jess81 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 05:23:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCains's choice of VP was a brilliant move (none / 0)

A perfect foil for the "experience thing"?  That was basically the sole reason justifying McCain's candidacy, and it's now inoperative.  Either Palin's qualified to be "one heartbeat away from the presidency" or she's not.  If she is, then so is Obama.

You and others approach this as if the experience argument is the opening salvo from camp Obama, when it's the opening salvo from camp McCain.  He blew up his own argument.


by rfahey22 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:06:32 AM EST

Re: McCains's choice of VP was a brilliant move (none / 0)

oh please please let me have that argument. "You sir are saying that Governor Palin is too inexperienced after being a mayor and then a governor for 20 months. But your nominee had only ever been a part time legislator in Illinois before he ran for the US Senate. In fact he has always starts running for his next office immediately after he is elected so he doesn't really focus on the job at hand."

"Mr. Obama tried to use a 10 day tour of Iraq and Europe to argue that he now has foreign policy experience-well Governor Palin also visited her troops in Kuwait and Germany."

And so the focus moves more and more to who has the experience- that is an argument that Obama will lose. If it becomes a race about the men atteh top of the ticket and not a race about democrats vs repugs Obama loses.


by Bornagaindem on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:43:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCains's choice of VP was a brilliant move (2.00 / 1)

You just missed his point. McCain can't go after Obama on experience anymore. He neutralized it.

If McCain continues to point out Obama's inexperience, he only highlights Palin's inexperience. Since Obama has not made experience a part of his campaign, he stands to lose nothing.

If it results in a pissing match between who's more inexperienced, it ends up in a tie. And that hurts McCain, who needs the experience argument for himself.


by elrod on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:47:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCains's choice of VP was a brilliant move (2.00 / 1)

Exactly.  They're not going to go after Palin on her inexperience.  That's not their line - that's McCain's line, which he just made senseless.

Imagine, if you will, that it's June, 1992 again, and Dan Quayle, after launching another character attack on Bill Clinton has just been caught cheating on his wife.  The election would end right then and there.

You wouldn't say "oh please, let Bill Clinton attack Dan Quayle on his infidelity, because that would just draw attention to blah blah blah".  He wouldn't have to.  He'd just watch the Bush/Quayle ticket's whole reason for existence collapse, and cruise to a landslide.


If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way.
by Jess81 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 01:12:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCains's choice of VP was a brilliant move (none / 0)

I didn't miss his point. The McCain team wasn't getting any traction on the experience thing any more. The press was bored with it. They are not bored with it any more. They will be happy to discuss it and every time they say but Palin has no experience McCain will sweetly say but what experience does Obama have? and you don't think that is a problem?

It is called- repeat, repeat, repeat until it becomes conventional wisdom. Why does White water still evoke the resonse it evokes even though there was no there there. Or Vince Foster? VP's have very little influence on the final decision of voters but this one allows the inexperience meme to live. That is great for McCain and bad for Obama.


by Bornagaindem on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 01:56:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCains's choice of VP was a brilliant move (none / 0)

No, you really don't get it at all, or refuse to.  McCain attacked with the inexperience angle.  A draw on the issue of experience is a victory for Obama, because he has always argued that the virtue of judgment is more important than "experience," however one seeks to define it.  McCain has argued that experience is at least as important as judgment, but he can no longer do that.  McCain would come across as a colossal hypocrite if he continued to push this line of attack (he is anyway, since he's spent months pushing it).

What this pick really serves to do is highlight McCain's age and his health.  Whether or not you think Biden would hold Obama's hand throughout his presidency, everyone assumes that Obama would remain of sound mind and body during that term.  People are a lot less sure about McCain, and unfortunately he's the only one with "experience" and foreign policy credentials.  McCain-Palin is an inherently riskier pick for the country than is Obama-Biden.


by rfahey22 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 02:35:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCains's choice of VP was a brilliant move (2.00 / 1)

I thought it was an interesting move at first, though I doubted that it would sway many hillary supporters over to McCain.  The longer the day went the more insulted I got that he thought that he could just pick any woman with no experience, support for none of the same issues as Hillary had, and then think that we wouldn't be able to tell the difference and support her for the sake of supporting a woman.  He doesn't get it.  Obama doesn't get it. And women continue to be the ball in a ping pong match between both parties and a couple of good old boys no matter what color they are. This election year has turned into a major circus and disappointment all the way around.


by Scotch on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:15:08 AM EST

Re: McCains's choice of VP was a brilliant move (none / 0)

Every indication I had in this election was that women deliberately do this to themselves. When they had the chance to pick a smart better qualified woman candidate they did not vote for her. African americans voted their identity this election by over 90% but women seem to be incapable of doing the same.

Rwanda -yes that Rwanda - passed a law that said 30% of its legislative branch must be women- the reality is that it is more like 50%. In the US just 17% are women. It is sad.


by Bornagaindem on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:49:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You get the experience thing backward (none / 0)

It isn't that Obama will call her inexperienced. It's that McCain can no longer call Obama inexperienced. And without experience, foreign policy and national security (of which Palin is completely ignorant), McCain has no case against Obama.


by elrod on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:44:28 AM EST

Re: You get the experience thing backward (none / 0)

you are wrong. The press has not focused enough Obama's inexperience and it is to his detriment when they do. All McCain has to say is I have all the experience I need and Palin will be more than ready after 4 or 8 years of being the VP. NO ONE REALLY CARES IF THE VP HAS EXPERIENCE. Any and all discussions of inexperience have to reflect back on Obama's own inexperience. Not a place the campaign wants to focus. The press is wrong the argument only worked against Hillary because so many democrats hate her and Bill (for whatever reason) most of the general electorate isn't that invested. They always vote on personality, the "sense of the man" and the inexperience of the candidate will have traction with them. Or haven't you been hearing that every time someone asks what are your reservations about Obama the answer is "his lack of experience".


by Bornagaindem on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 12:57:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You get the experience thing backward (none / 0)

I disagree.  McCain can't say that she will be experienced in 4 or 8 years for many, many reasons.

First, it would show that he lacks judgement  picking his VP.  The VP needs to be ready for the Presidency NOW.  She can't say, "Oh, I thought I had more time" if she gets the nod.

Second, it is even more relevant due to McCain's age.  My republican mother thinks his age is relevant and was waiting to see the VP before choosing.  She is not pleased and I doubt she is alone.


McCain = bad Obama = good
by CAchemist on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 01:03:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

John McCain had better *NOT* say that (none / 0)

The implied rationale for any Veep is this:

The President may die on day one.  The Veep must be suitable to serve if needed.  

This was an unserious choice.  She is not ready to be President.  I've spent my day digging into her public statements and her public life.  There's a lot to like, and some to admire.  That being said, she is a AA player doing a stint in the bigs.  It won't end well.

Nothing against her, actually.  This isn't her fault.  When she laughed off the possibility last month, frankly I think she showed more mental acuity than has Senator McCain.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 01:23:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

A Fabulous Pick If (none / 0)

No scandal blows up and the Democrats become bold enough to point out that this is an affirmative action pick. Otherwise, the fact that she is a pro-life Republican woman does give McCain a tactical advantage. People really don't care if the VP choice is unqualified. Spiro Agnew won 49 states in 1972 and Dan Quayle won 40 states in 1988.


Dizzy Zzyzzy
by Zzyzzy on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 01:33:27 AM EST

Correction (none / 0)

A fabulous pick if ... the Democrats are to afraid to point out that this is an affirmative action pick....


Dizzy Zzyzzy
by Zzyzzy on Sat Aug 30, 2008 at 01:37:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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